People often make up myths to flesh out their cultures or help their audience get into that culture''s mindset. Say we were going to make up a complete set of myths for a culture, where ''complete set'' = one of every archetypal myth structure or moral. What kinds of myths would be in our set? A creation myth is the most obvious, so let''s start with that. A creation myth explains how the world came to be, how people came to be in this world, and/or how people/animals/other natural objects came to be the way they are. My personal favorite collection of this type of myth is Rudyard Kipling''s _Just So Stories_. Many cultures also have a mythical trickster figure. Some examples of these figures are anansi(spider), coyote, fox, Loki, and raven. The role of trickster myths in culture is debated; the stories are often funny, with one character coming up with a clever plan, usually to get something they haven''t earned. Another character plays the fool, who has this clever plan carried out right under their nose, yet suspects nothing or ignores their small suspicions. Sometimes the trickster succeeds and the fool loses; sometimes the trickster is exposed and embarrassed or harmed. So the porpose of the myth might be to either encourage or discourage people to be clever, or to warn people to be suspicious of those who are clever. In short story format this type of myth becomes a fableau, of which there are some great early english examples in Chaucer''s _Canterbury Tales_. Then we have cautionary myths, which teach morals. There are several Greek and Latin myths that warn against hubris (arrogant pride). Almost all cultures have one or more myths warning against incest and/or fratricide/patricide. Aesop''s Fables teach all sorts of morals, The punchline of a cautionary myth often becomes a proverb. e.g. "curiosity killed the cat". And finally we have epic myths, usually about a hero who goes on a journey, solves problems, is helped by allies, and kills enemies. Many RPGs are designed around an epic myth structure. So, what do you think trickster myths accomplish? What kinds of myths would be needed for our set? What are some of your favorite myths of each type?

I might argue that *every* culture has its trickster mythology - but that''s irrelevant for this topic.

While I agree that Tricksters are almost always depicted as complete fools or extremely clever mischief makers, I think the truth lies somewhere in between - that sometimes you can be too smart for your own good. I''m of the personal belief that Tricksters are used in tales to impart a sense of humility, to think before you act, to control your ego - so in that latter sense, I guess the Trickster tales act as a way to promote the superego, if you don''t mind being Freudian about it.

My favorite of the Trickster mythological tales is in the epic story, Journey to the West, which outlines the rise of Sun Wukong, the Monkey King, his subsequent fall at the hand (pun intended) of the Buddha, and the resulting journey of elightenment he goes through while acting as bodyguard for the priest Sanzang, who is to retrieve the Buddhist scriptures for China. It''s an all-encompassing tale, epic in nature, filled with moral lessons, and Sun Wukong himself - for the first third of the tale, at least - is the epitome of hubris.

I find the destruction/end-times myth the most compelling - Ragnarok in the Norse culture, the Second Coming in Xtianity, etc. It seems that not only do mythos need to provide a place to come from, but also somewhere to go to. Provides for some interesting material from a game and story composition perspective as well - who''s involved, what happens afterwards, and especially who gets special treatment.

ld

quote: Original post by liquiddark
Xtianity

Christianity! What point is there in taking out "Christ" in Christianity when the religion centers around him? Same with Christmas and Xmas. Christmas is the celebration of the birth of Christ, and to take him out of it is pointless.

I'm not the greatest, purist Christian in the world, but that stills pisses me off.

[Sorry, after two post I noticed I didn't finish "pointless."]

[edited by - orionx103 on December 19, 2003 8:59:04 PM]

Sorry orionx, but I also use "Xtian" instead of "Christian". It's a personal thing, and centers around a few statements you yourself just made - but I just want to put a stop to the religious debate that's going to occur, however (personally) tempting it may be.

It's enough to say different people have different views, and its intent isn't to offend. Most often it's only meant as shorthand. So let's keep anything more on it to the religious forums, where I'd be more than happy to share views on the idea



[edited by - EricTrickster on December 19, 2003 6:11:39 PM]

quote: Original post by orionx103

quote: Original post by liquiddark
Xtianity

Christianity! What point is there in taking out "Christ" in Christianity when the religion centers around him? Same with Christmas and Xmas. Christmas is the celebration of the birth of Christ, and to take him out of it is point.

I''m not the greatest, purist Christian in the world, but that stills pisses me off.

Erm... Isn''t the ''X'' a historical Greek or Hebrew (and later medieval english) symbol of the cross and therefore Christ, just like that fish everybody has stuck to their cars? I think they even sell some t-shirts where it''s spelled that way, with a cross and then ''tian''. Or you could regard the word ''xtian'' as simply an abbreviation, and goodness knows abbreviations are a staple of internet communication. Either way, there''s no need to flame about it, many users in these forums, including me, are not christians, and you can''t expect people who are not of a faith and may not even like it to be super respectful about it.

quote: Original post by EricTrickster
Sorry orionx, but I also use "Xtian" instead of "Christian". It''s a personal thing, and centers around a few statements you yourself just made - but I just want to put a stop to the religious debate that''s going to occur, however (personally) tempting it may be.

Oh, I know, I love them too. I figure, if he''s going to spell out Ragnorak, he can spell out Christian.

My nanny, a lifelong member of the United Church, explained it as being a symbol of the cross. No offense intended. Just a habit.

ld



[edited by - liquiddark on December 19, 2003 10:06:27 PM]

notice that xmas (ok ok christmas) is not the birthdate of the christ but is a paien fest mask in christian fest, i think it was made to change the birth of mithra or the winter soltice, however now it''s the santa claus party which was invented for coca cola!!! now it''s a profan fest, how charming

ok, now everything is said, back of the topic

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
be good
be evil
but do it WELL
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

No, December 25 is not the exact date Christ was born. The fact is, it is the day Christians celebrate Christmas, the birth of Christ. Some scholars think His birth actually took place some time in September.

Also, I was going to address this earlier but didn''t, the fish was actually a symbol used as a "code" among early Christians. During persecution, the Christians would have to be weary of who they talked to about God. When they met someone, they would draw the fish and if the other person knew what it meant, they would sit and talk about God.