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Economics
Author
Okay, here''s a little question that I think pertains to the element of ''realism'' versus ''enjoyablity'' in gaming, and it''s causing a debate on our team - and I want backup from online sources: Is it a good idea to implement a working economic system in an RPG? Fun or tedious?
See, my original concept for this sprung from attempting to work out some way to make NPC shopkeepers more "real" through the use of dialogue. I figured that it they could tell people that things were running out of stock, or that they got a good deal on nails, or somesuch, this would be a good idea. Then I firgured that it wouldn''t be terribly difficult to actually make prices and availiblity of items change at the same time as the dialogue. I worked out a couple sine functions that will produce a moderate price change in items over time - BUT it''s beginning to become apparent that this might not be a desirable characteristic, as it adds a level of complexity and difficulty that is not otherwise present. So, what''s your opinion? Good idea, or the "Boost" system from FF8?
Cheers,
-Operator
Here''s my opinion... In a single player RPG, don''t rely on economics too much, focus more on the battle system and mostly on the story. This is not to say that you should completely neglect the economical system in those games, a rapidly changing economy can provide an interesting money-making element to an RPG if properly executed. Many gamers however may find this system tedious and ignore all your hardwork into developing this system because they will be focused on the kill and level-up factors of the game. In an MMORPG, by all means put a lot of effort into economics, that''s the only reason some MMORPGers play. That saves time into making the economical system because plain and simple, the players make the economy, making it more efficient and based on the principles of "Supply and Demand" rather than those of "Choas."
As a sidenote: Also focus strongly on the battle system more than economics in an MMORPG because that is what many people look for in those kind of games and you should always look to please the majority.
"Stop it mister!!! I don''''t even know you!!!"
As a sidenote: Also focus strongly on the battle system more than economics in an MMORPG because that is what many people look for in those kind of games and you should always look to please the majority.
"Stop it mister!!! I don''''t even know you!!!"
You''ll start to run into two kinds of problems:
1) the economy might go haywire, and/or get in the way of the player''s goals
2) the player may decide that gaming the economy is absolutely necessary, and will trek across the desert 20 times to make 2 billion zorkmids, thus a: getting bored and b: overflowing your counter for money and thus not being able to finish the game
For an RPG that''s NOT massively multiplayer online, just have guys sell you stuff at a set price, buy stuff at another set price, and be done with it. It''s fine to vary the price by location, and by what character interacts with the shopkeeper (charisma, factions, etc).
For an RPG that IS massively multiplayer, you need a full, working economy. Nobody has actually made an economy not based on real-world currency work well yet -- everyone gets into MUD-flation.
1) the economy might go haywire, and/or get in the way of the player''s goals
2) the player may decide that gaming the economy is absolutely necessary, and will trek across the desert 20 times to make 2 billion zorkmids, thus a: getting bored and b: overflowing your counter for money and thus not being able to finish the game
For an RPG that''s NOT massively multiplayer online, just have guys sell you stuff at a set price, buy stuff at another set price, and be done with it. It''s fine to vary the price by location, and by what character interacts with the shopkeeper (charisma, factions, etc).
For an RPG that IS massively multiplayer, you need a full, working economy. Nobody has actually made an economy not based on real-world currency work well yet -- everyone gets into MUD-flation.
Author
Heh, I think you may be overthinking the "economics" of this. It''s really a lot simpler, and it avoids most of the problems you mentioned. The system works as such:
-There''s a "k" value that determines the overall market condition of a particular store at a particular time
-Thos "k" value determines what a shopkeeper says, and the price of a good.
-Goods have an average price that''s set by (me) the game designer.
-The "k" value either increases or decrease price
-This "k" value also flucuates between high and low over time, like a periodic cosine function.
So, the player cannot affect the market (in time-honored Microeconomic fashion) nor are the price differences particulairly great - removing the problem of an economic collapse or of an economy being overcomplicated.
Hope that clears it up,
-Operator
-There''s a "k" value that determines the overall market condition of a particular store at a particular time
-Thos "k" value determines what a shopkeeper says, and the price of a good.
-Goods have an average price that''s set by (me) the game designer.
-The "k" value either increases or decrease price
-This "k" value also flucuates between high and low over time, like a periodic cosine function.
So, the player cannot affect the market (in time-honored Microeconomic fashion) nor are the price differences particulairly great - removing the problem of an economic collapse or of an economy being overcomplicated.
Hope that clears it up,
-Operator
Your system shows that this is a single player game. I agree with your system and think it has its perks(I like the idea of the system and have nother friend who would strongly enjoy it), but by all means focus more on story and battle because they will be focused on a great deal more than your economy.
~You mentioned stock in your original post... Can you please describe the setting of this game as well has how the stock system is intended to work? This will help us to give an opinion. Thanx!
"Stop it mister!!! I don''''t even know you!!!"
~You mentioned stock in your original post... Can you please describe the setting of this game as well has how the stock system is intended to work? This will help us to give an opinion. Thanx!
"Stop it mister!!! I don''''t even know you!!!"
Forget my bottom not on my last post... I misinterpreted the meaning of stock in the original post. My apologies!
"Stop it mister!!! I don''''t even know you!!!"
"Stop it mister!!! I don''''t even know you!!!"
Author
No, not at all. It IS a single player RPG, and this system is by no means a focus of the game - it''s more of a five-minute doodle and something GAX work on my calculator. A stock system might be interesting, but it''s far more likely that it would merely be tedious, resulting in people waiting around for more potions to respawn at the shop.
I will, however, eagerly elaborate on the game environment. Currently, it''s an RPG set in a world on the brink of the Industrial Revolution, and a world war brought about by the conflicts created by industrial competition. However, the game has a twist, wherein it is a world rife with magic (for a well-plotted plausible reason) that is essentially analogus to science. It''s sort of a historical drama, with the world in the grips of social and political change, and it was my thought that an economic system that changed would really add to the sense of changes and dynamism that pervades the story.
Sorry, I''d elaborate more, but I''d rather save that for one big post later on....when I''ve finally gotten approval for a lot of the story from the team I''m in.
-Operator
I will, however, eagerly elaborate on the game environment. Currently, it''s an RPG set in a world on the brink of the Industrial Revolution, and a world war brought about by the conflicts created by industrial competition. However, the game has a twist, wherein it is a world rife with magic (for a well-plotted plausible reason) that is essentially analogus to science. It''s sort of a historical drama, with the world in the grips of social and political change, and it was my thought that an economic system that changed would really add to the sense of changes and dynamism that pervades the story.
Sorry, I''d elaborate more, but I''d rather save that for one big post later on....when I''ve finally gotten approval for a lot of the story from the team I''m in.
-Operator
It''s a fitting setting for a working, flucuating market system. By all means go for it! Here''s an idea that you may like to accompany your economy and harmonize it with your setting:
The Industrial Revolution is a time of change and invention. Why not have the economy fluctuate with new inventions and the materials needed to create them? Make inventions come out that require parts, this causes a demand and an increase in price. Eventually, as the story progresses, make those items outdated when newer things come out, thus decreasing in price. That element will make your market system seem less random and can prove quite interesting to the overall feel of the game. I also feel that people will not become too tied in it and will still mostly stay focused on the game itself. Hope my opinion helped!
"Stop it mister!!! I don''''t even know you!!!"
The Industrial Revolution is a time of change and invention. Why not have the economy fluctuate with new inventions and the materials needed to create them? Make inventions come out that require parts, this causes a demand and an increase in price. Eventually, as the story progresses, make those items outdated when newer things come out, thus decreasing in price. That element will make your market system seem less random and can prove quite interesting to the overall feel of the game. I also feel that people will not become too tied in it and will still mostly stay focused on the game itself. Hope my opinion helped!
"Stop it mister!!! I don''''t even know you!!!"
Author
Hmmm, that''s not a bad idea, but the time-frame may be slightly too short to allow for any sort of real innovation. I mean, if we look realistically at the actual industrial revolution, most signifigant changes in materials technology was took the better part of a decade to occur - a time frame that is too long for the RPG I''m plotting. However, it very well could remove a couple non-sequiters that I always hated in normal RPGs - namely the appearance of really good equipment late in the game for no apparent reason other than scripting.
Good suggestion, and thanks for the help,
-Operator
Good suggestion, and thanks for the help,
-Operator
You would almost certainly get better feedback on this type of issue in the Game Design forum.
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