Player creates character. Player customizes character according to his or her wishes. Player plays character and makes it do what player wants it to do. or Player is assigned a character. Player has to figure out the strenghts and weaknesses of the character and make the best of it. A smart player let''s the character do what it''s good at and avoids doing what it''s bad at. Two different approaches to ''roleplaying''. My idea involves the second one. What if, instead of players having all the control, the character has all the control. A player is simply given a character and has to figure out how to play that character best. Get ''stuck'' with a character that has no fighting skills whatsoever? Well, go and find ways to still be a part in the world you live in. Discover that you''re an excellent fisherman, or find out that you are the fastest runner in town. Discover that one trait that will still make you of value. The game is combat oriented? Well, find out what weapon your character can handle best. Is it that longsword that everyone seems to be using these days? Or does your character just happen to be an expert with the dagger? And if you lack any fighting skills, maybe you have a steady hand and are able to disarm traps that would otherwise have injured the fighers in your team. The rewards of finding out the strenghts of your character can be great (example: when player discovers that character is good at skill A, he can become an expert at skill A with enough practice) The penalties of NOT finding out the strenghts and weaknesses of your character can be severe (example: when player does NOT discover that character is good at skill A, he will never achieve his full potential in that skill. If instead he keeps using skill B, at which he is no good, he might even get harmed because of it... ever seen people do things they''re just not good at?) Here are some ideas and problems that I came up with: Skill system: How about a system that gives each and every character a uniqueness? The designers of the game could pre-design each and every character before hand (say they create 10.000). The player is assigned, at random, one of these characters. The player will be able to tell if his character is strong etc, just like in real life you know about yourself if you''re strong or not. But, just like in your life, the player will not know what the character is good at or not, until he tries. Each pre-designed character has a max for each skill. Simple example: skill with long sword: max 100 skill with short sword: max 150 skill with dagger: max 200 It''s up to the player to discover that the character is just a lot better with the dagger than with the longsword (even though the longsword is a more powerful weapon) These max skill number will never be revealed to the player. He has to find out by himself for each and every skill if his character is good at it or not. The balancing part is up to the designers of the game and of the characters. If they want a world where magic is rare, all they have to do is give only a few of the pre-designed characters a high skill in magic (1/1000). If they want most characters to be good at fighting with swords, they just give most characters a high sword skill (1/5). They also have to make sure that each pre-designed character has something to make that character unique. Some might have a really high archery skill, combined with a very low magic and melee skill. Some might be really fast runners, but not so good at jumping. Some might be able to move around without making a sound, but terrible at picking locks. And some might just be destined to stand out above the crowd and be real hero''s, with high skills all around the board. And some... yes some might just be terrible at whatever they do. Can''t fight, can''t run, can''t pick locks, can''t talk to people, can''t do nothing. But, for some, those characters just might be fun to play. The biggest problem is this: How can a game reflect WITHOUT numbers the different between number of skill? What if two players, one with sword skill 100 and the other with sword skill 200 face off. What should be the difference in the fight to show the difference in the numbers? Speed? Accuracy? With things like running it''s fairly simple. High running skill = high speed. A player can simple test himself with other players and find out that he''s fast. And then just keep practicing running until he''s the faster runner in town (might be a good messenger and make a handsome living at it). Without numbers though, every skill has to have a visible difference between low and high skill (and everything in between) And then... how does a skill grow? We all know how players like to create their ubercharacters in skill based systems: just keep doing the same thing over and over all night until you reach the maximum skill level possible (which results in all characters looking alike in the end) So, how should skill gain happen? Because one important thing is that the player has to notice that his character is more proficient in some skills that others. And the way to show this is to show a higher learning curve for the ''good'' skills and a lower one for the ''bad'' ones. So, a character has to gain skill faster when he''s good at it, and it has to somehow show to the player (but maybe not too obvious). To me, the thought of being able to create a unique character precedes over all others. But to others? Why would people play a game where they just might end up with the best beggar in town... simply because their character is not good at anything. I think that players who play their character to its full potential (the worse off a character is in the big picture -the lower his max skills- the more of a challenge it will be to keep him alive and make him ''all that he can be'') might be rewarded in the random pick of their next character. Example: 1st pick, player gets a fairly bad character. But, he sticks with it and actually manages to get his character through some adventures before he finally meets his match (two Orcs walking by). Because the player reached a certain percentage of the full potential of the character (say, 10%) he will get a higher chance of getting a more than average character in his next pick. Still, players should not be able to find out just how good their character is (or not) until after quite some playing time. This idea started out as an idea for an rpg world, but I think it can be used in all sorts of games. Sports simulator. Imagine an online competition where players are assigned a character for a football game. They could practice a little, find out their character''s strenghts and weaknesses and then start playing. Throughout the career of the character he would start to grow in certain skills (or not) and might become next years MVP. Or, a Streetfighter type of game. Players would not know what exactly the strenghts and powers of their characters were until their first fight. Live or die would depend on the adaptability of the player. And the more matches he wins, the stronger he can become. There''s some hurdles to be overcome (and found) with this idea, but I think it just might have something...

i''m curious to how u would handle interests. i.e. humans tend to have interests in certain things and not others. like i play basketball because i like it and i kept playing. but are the characters gonna reflect their interests? i''ve never played golf b4. i might suck at it or i might kick butt, but i have no interest 2 play. is this a part of the characters? or are interests simply left up to the player? will the player''s interests be what he should persue?


I don''t judge, I just observe

Players would always have the ability to let their characters do what THEY want them to do.

But...

This is the way it should work:

Each character has a set of skills.
Each of these skills has a certain set maximum.
The higher the maximum, the faster a character will learn the skill and to a higher degree.

In the game, the more a character focuses on those skills that he''s good at, the better he can become at them. But if he does not use those skills that he''s good at, and decides to use ''popular'' skills instead he will probably be misusing his powers.

Character A
High skill in swords
Low skill in archery
Average skill in magic

Character B
Low skill in swords
Average skill in archery
High skill in magic

Character C
Average skill in swords
High skill in archery
Low skill in magic

If each of these set out on the same path of life, and all choose to become a warrior, fighting with a long sword...

Player A: might become a legend, if he can stay alive.
Player B: will probably die in his first real fight.
Player C: might be able to defend himself when in trouble, but will never really be able to become a fighting machine.

Players should discover the strenghts of their character (and it''s up to the designers to give each and every character something special, something the player can be proud of) and use those.

I don''t know how long a player should be able to discover his strenghts but I think it should be basically his or her entire life. If you''re 40 and all of a sudden find that you''re really good at something, you sometimes can become just as good at it as someone who''s done it their entire life. But, you might not become as good as someone who''s done it their entire life when it''s something they just excel in (basically, player A for example, if he starts wielding swords from an early age on, he''ll become a legend. If he starts later on in life, he might become better than player B anc C but probably not better at fighting with swords than another player A who started practicing with swords from the get-go)

Players will always be able to let their characters do what the player wants, but, they will be rewarded for PLAYING A ROLE, for doing what the character ''wants'' to do.

i c. i like the idea. that''s kinda what i did w/ my basketball game. u don''t really know who can do what, all u know that this person is ranked a certain number(overall) compared to others at his position (i.e. this guy is the 2nd best point guard). i haven''t had time 2 go back and work on updating it, but that''s where i was headed. i think this would work great for an MMORPG.


--I don''t judge, I just observe

Stuck in the Bush''s, Florida

The way I see it is this:

If players can not simply compare each other''s numbers (I''m a spellcaster with Intelligence X and Y Mana -to cast spells- OR I''m a fighter with Strenght A and B Hitpoints) then they''ll have to find other ways to ''hook up''. I think that when playing in groups WITHOUT knowing exactly who is what etc, players will spend more time paying attention to what it is that their groupmembers do right and wrong. And they will make a judgement. If you''re doing a good job, others will be more likely to ask you to join them next time. Especially if death plays a major part (I believe in fast paced but highly dangerous combat, where the risks are high, the rewards don''t really matter, and the adrenaline rush is just about as high as it can be) because only then will players become to completely rely on eachother.

And players would have to discover their own specialties so that they can tell others. "Yeah, I''m good at... well, let''s just say I''m a good scout. I can walk without making a sound, find traps left by my enemies, and I kill without leaving a trace. Yup, I''m just what you need for this type of job (exploring dungeon)"

Or: "Hunting down skeletons at the graveyard, eh? Well, you might be interested in knowing that I am proficient with this club here, which just happens to be a great cure for the sickness that makes those bones rise from the graves."

Of course, the more specialties the better. When there''s only ''sword, bow, magic, thievery'' then you''re pretty much stuck with the same thing that you''re stuck with now (limited number of classes). But, when you really have a good number of specialties, and a good mix-up, each player might find something to excel in.

My main problems are:

*How do you show to the player in which skills his/her character has a lot of potential?
*How do skills grow to their potential (how does skillgain happen)?

I think it''s best to start simple, so for now I''m foregoing on the MMORPG thing and just trying to think of this system as fitting into an all-combat game. Mainly because I think it needs a high-paced, high-risk setting.